文字實錄 · Transcript

馮欣：在上一期的《解析中國》中，我們討論了是否應(yīng)該延遲中國人的退休年齡。六月初，人力資源和社會保障部提出未來會逐步將退休年齡推遲五年。我們采訪的市民對此各持己見，但是專家都支持這個決策。專家同時也指出，反對的聲音折射出了更深層的問題，比如中國現(xiàn)行養(yǎng)老保險制度中存在的不平等現(xiàn)象以及中國人口的老齡化問題。但對于個人來說，我們還有更多的問題需要考慮。比如，我們退休后究竟可以領(lǐng)到多少錢？中國有沒有足夠的錢來贍養(yǎng)它逐漸變老的人口？我們應(yīng)該從什么時候起考慮養(yǎng)老的問題？在討論這些問題之前，讓我們先聽聽大家是怎么說的。

In our last episode of Digest China, we discussed whether it's a good idea to make Chinese people retire at a later age. The discussion came after the Ministry of Human Resources and Social Security's June announcement that it will gradually push back China's retirement age by five years. While the citizens we talked to showed different opinions on the government's push, the scholars we interviewed all support the idea. But they pointed out the opposing voices reflect deeper problems, such as the inequality existing in China's current pension system and the aging of the Chinese population. However, there are more questions for individuals to think. For example, how much money can we receive after we retire? At what age should we start planning our retirement? Does China have enough money to support its aging population? Before we get into these questions, let's first hear what people have to say.

記者：您退休后大概每個月需要多少養(yǎng)老生活費用？

Reporter: How much money do you need to support yourself each month after you've retired?

受訪者：現(xiàn)在我的養(yǎng)老費是3700塊錢。

Respondent: About 3,700 yuan.

受訪者：生活費用可能是3000塊錢吧。要是沒病就問題不大，醫(yī)保什么的都可以了，要是得了重病大病，我覺得還是挺困難的。在中老年群體，大多數(shù)人都是沒車、沒房、又有病的。

Respondent: My living expenses are about 3,000 yuan. If I'm not sick, I wouldn't have any trouble, since I have my health insurance. But if I get really sick, it would be very difficult. Among the elderly people, most don't own cars and houses, and they suffer from diseases.

受訪者：如果以目前社會的消費水平，我也就不要求太高，只是一個溫飽。對于我們來說，可能5000塊錢就夠了。物價一直這么漲，那么我估計5000塊錢肯定是不行的。

Respondent: Based on the current standard of living, I wouldn't ask for too much. But to survive, I think 5,000 yuan is enough.If prices keep going up like this，then 5,000 yuan will definitely not be enough.

受訪者：沒有考慮過。以現(xiàn)在這種國民生產(chǎn)總值來看，到我退休的時候, 大約還需要30多年，那基本保障應(yīng)該是在8000或者8000以上。

Respondent: Never thought about it. Based on our current Gross National Product (GNP), when I retire, which is in about 30 years, I think the basic pension should be above 8,000 yuan.

記者：您退休后想做哪些事呢？有沒有規(guī)劃過？

Reporter: What will you do after you retire? Have you ever planned it?

受訪者：我想做一些對社會有意義的事，投身于教育或者是公益。

Respondent: I want to do something that is beneficial for the society, like engaging in education or charity work.

受訪者：退休有時間的話可以出去玩玩，帶著孩子，帶著家人。

Respondent: (I'll) travel with my children and family after I retire.

受訪者：覺得還有能力的話，還想做很多事情。

Respondent: If I'm capable, I will still want to do a lot of things.

記者：您對您未來的養(yǎng)老有規(guī)劃嗎？

Reporter: Do you have any retirement plans?

受訪者：沒有，對這個問題想得很少，但是自己也買了商業(yè)保險。

Respondent: No, I rarely think about it, but I did buy commercial insurance.

受訪者：規(guī)劃倒沒有，我覺得就是多掙錢，自己多儲蓄。

Respondent: Not necessarily a plan, I just think I should make more money and save more.

記者：您認(rèn)為您在退休后最有保障的經(jīng)濟來源將會是什么？

Reporter: What do you think to be the most secure source of income after you retire?

受訪者：退休金，我想首先是退休金。

Respondent: Pension, first and foremost.

受訪者：那就是退休工資了，最穩(wěn)定的只有這個。

Respondent: Definitely my pension. It'll be the only secured source of income.

受訪者：還是養(yǎng)老金。

Respondent: It's pension.

受訪者：因為我也不知道我以后能不能做得成生意，我能不能不賠本，養(yǎng)老保險我一直在交。那么交到一定年限，當(dāng)我退休的時候，它能比較及時地、如實地能發(fā)給我；那么我覺得可能最基本的生活保障是可以的。

Respondent: I don't know if I will do business successfully, and not lose money, but I've been contributing social security taxes. Hopefully by the time I retire, (the government) will give me my pension promptly and accurately; then I think my basic living will be guaranteed.

養(yǎng)老保險制度的基本概念是公民通過繳納養(yǎng)老金稅來贍養(yǎng)當(dāng)前的退休老人。在這個人退休后，他（她）又由年輕一代的納稅人來贍養(yǎng)。根據(jù)中國2010年通過的《社會保險法》，中國基本的養(yǎng)老保險制度將人群分為四類：城鎮(zhèn)職工，公務(wù)員和事業(yè)單位職工，農(nóng)村居民，以及城鎮(zhèn)居民，城鎮(zhèn)居民又包括個體、非全日制從業(yè)人員、無就業(yè)人員。中國基本養(yǎng)老保險制度由社會統(tǒng)籌和個人賬戶組成。每個月，城鎮(zhèn)職工繳付相當(dāng)于個人工資8％的社會保險稅到個人賬戶里。用人單位繳付員工工資的20％到社會統(tǒng)籌賬戶里，由當(dāng)?shù)卣芾怼?/p>

The basic idea for a pension system is citizens pay social security taxes to fund current pensioners. When a person retires, he or she will be funded by the younger generation of tax payers. According to China's 2010 Social Security Law, China's basic pension system divides people into four categories: urban employees, State employees, rural residents, and urban residents, which includes self-employed, part-time employed and unemployed residents. China's basic pension system consists of social pooling and each citizen's individual account. Each month, urban employees pay 8 percent of their wages as social security taxes to their individual accounts. Employers pay an amount equal to 20 percent of each employee's wages to the social pool, which is managed by the local government.

事實上，所有的個人賬戶都是虛擬的，因為職工直到退休后才可以領(lǐng)到養(yǎng)老金，同時還需要繳費15年以上。一個職工的養(yǎng)老金來自兩方面：一是社會統(tǒng)籌撥給他（她）的錢。二是個人賬戶里的錢。但是，國家公務(wù)員和事業(yè)單位職工不需要每月從工資中繳納社會保險稅，國家財政為他們繳付。他們退休后也直接從國家領(lǐng)取退休金。農(nóng)村和城鎮(zhèn)居民參加基本養(yǎng)老保險也需要繳納15年以上的社會保險稅到自己的個人賬戶中。他們的養(yǎng)老金將來自于個人賬戶里的錢和國家補貼的基礎(chǔ)養(yǎng)老金。根據(jù)人社部六月份的報告，中國的基本養(yǎng)老保險制度覆蓋2.83億城鎮(zhèn)職工，3.58億農(nóng)村居民和540萬城鎮(zhèn)居民。可能大多數(shù)人最先想到的問題是：繳納了這么多年的養(yǎng)老保險，我退休時究竟可以領(lǐng)到多少養(yǎng)老金？我們帶著這些問題采訪了謝宇，他是北京一家國有企業(yè)的人力資源專員。

Individual accounts are in fact, virtual, because employees will not be able to cash out their pension until they retire, and have contributed to their individual accounts for at east 15 years. Their pension will come from two sources: first, the money allotted to them from the big, social pool; and, second, the money from their individual accounts. State employees, however, do not pay monthly social security taxes from their work wages by themselves. The State revenue pays for them. They receive pension directly from the State after they retire. Rural residents and urban residents can participate in the basic pension system by contributing social security taxes to their individual accounts for at least 15 years. Their pension will come from their individual accounts as well as a base pension provided by the State. According to the Ministry of Human Resources and Social Security's June report, China's basic pension system covers 283 million urban employees, 358 million rural residents and about 5.4 million urban residents. Perhaps the first question that comes to most people's mind is: How much money will I receive when retired, after contributing social security taxes for so many years? We directed this question to Xie Yu, who works as a human resources officer at a State-owned company in Beijing.

馮欣：謝先生，我首先有一個問題。對于我們城鎮(zhèn)職工來說，我們每個月繳納的養(yǎng)老保險是一定的，但是我們退休后究竟能每個月拿多少養(yǎng)老金卻很難估算出來，這是為什么呢？

Feng Xin: Mr Xie, I have a question. For urban employees, we pay a certain amount of social security taxes each month, but it is very difficult to estimate how much money we will receive after we retire. Why is that?

謝宇：是這樣，這個問題計算起來非常的復(fù)雜。它跟咱們每個月交多少錢，跟你連續(xù)交多少時間這兩個因素都是息息相關(guān)的。歸納起來，一個人的月基本養(yǎng)老金等于月基礎(chǔ)養(yǎng)老金加上個人賬戶養(yǎng)老金。前者來源于社會統(tǒng)籌，后者來自個人賬戶?；A(chǔ)養(yǎng)老金是經(jīng)過一系列公式和函數(shù)計算出來的，由很多因素決定，比如當(dāng)?shù)氐纳鐣骄べY、個人收入，以及繳費的年限等等。我們通過這個公式就能看得出來，實際上，我們退休以后能掙多少錢，說得通俗一點，非常簡單。就是您繳的錢越多、繳的時間越長，最后拿到的退休金就越高。

Xie Yu: This is because the calculation is very complex. It's related to how much we pay each month as well as how long we pay. To summarize, a person's monthly pension is equal to a monthly base pension provided by the State plus the money from his or her individual account. Whereas the former comes from the social pool, the latter comes from the person's individual account. However, the base pension is calculated by a series of fractions and function, depending on a number of factors, such as the average salary of the local population, individual salary, years of contribution and so on. We can tell from this formula that how much we will receive after we retire – let's put it simply –the more you pay and the longer you pay, the more you will receive.

馮欣：那這個計算公式這么復(fù)雜，人們怎么能夠核實他領(lǐng)的養(yǎng)老金是他該領(lǐng)的那筆錢呢？

Feng Xin: Since the calculation is so complex, how can people make sure the money they receive is the right amount?

謝宇：我覺得是這樣的，現(xiàn)在養(yǎng)老金主要還是由社?；鹬行膩碛嬎愕?。他們在計算的時候有自己一套系統(tǒng)。我覺得還是應(yīng)該充分相信他們的吧。

Xie Yu: Well, our pension is currently calculated by the social insurance fund management centers. They have their own systems of calculation. I think we just have to trust them.

養(yǎng)老金的計算如此復(fù)雜，有沒有可能得知不同社會群體的養(yǎng)老金有何差異？我們采訪了中國養(yǎng)老金專家楊燕綏。

Since the calculation of one's pension is so complex, is it possible to get a rough idea of how pension might differ from one social group to another? We talked to Yang Yansui, a leading expert in China's pension system.

馮欣：我還看過一個您的采訪, 您說國民基礎(chǔ)養(yǎng)老金，從總理到農(nóng)民待遇應(yīng)該差不多。這是什么意思？

Feng Xin: I read one of your interviews. You said between the premier and a farmer, the base pension should be more or less the same. What did you mean?

楊燕綏：我們的養(yǎng)老金制度分三個制度。機關(guān)事業(yè)單位是退休金，不繳費，按個人工資85%到90%，80%到95%。企業(yè)職工繳費，可是養(yǎng)老金發(fā)放替代率越來越少，因為它不投資，在貶值。還有第三個就是居民，他們是從16歲開始儲蓄養(yǎng)老金。到60歲退休的時候，政府給一個養(yǎng)老補貼。自己再領(lǐng)自己養(yǎng)老金個人賬戶。中國有三個制度，這三個制度里現(xiàn)在看來，城鄉(xiāng)居民的養(yǎng)老金制度是最合理的。就是我個人儲蓄養(yǎng)老金，然后政府補貼我養(yǎng)老金。政府責(zé)任、個人責(zé)任是非常清晰的。但是這個制度現(xiàn)在的問題是，個人儲蓄養(yǎng)老金都放在地方銀行，沒有保值措施。地方銀行按一年儲蓄記賬，我存30年，你憑什么給我按一年儲蓄記賬呢？

Yang Yansui: We have three pension systems. State employees do not pay social security taxes, but they receive a pension, which is as much as 80% to 95% of their salary from the State. Urban employees pay taxes, but the money they receive is decreasing, because their money is not being invested, so it's actually devaluating. (Urban and rural) residents start contributing social security taxes from the age of 16. When they retire at 60, the government will provide them with a subsidy. They will also get money from their individual accounts. Among China's three pension systems, I think the third one is most reasonable. Individuals save their own pension, whereas the government subsidizes individuals. Responsibilities are clearly separated between the government and individuals. However, the problem of this system is that individuals' money is all kept in local banks without inflation-proof measures. The local banks pay an interest at a one-year deposit rate. I have deposited for 30 years. Why do you give me a one-year deposit rate?

馮欣：什么叫一年儲蓄記賬？

Feng Xin: What do you mean by "one-year deposit rate"?

楊燕綏：就是按當(dāng)年的定期儲蓄給你一個利息。這個太低了，因為養(yǎng)老金存進去以后是不能取的。鎖定賬戶，到60甚至65歲以后才能取。我定期存35年；那你憑什么給我按一年的記賬利息??？所以城鄉(xiāng)居民養(yǎng)老金實際上是在貶值的。這是它的問題，但是這個制度結(jié)構(gòu)非常好。政府補貼、個人儲蓄。全球70多個國家，發(fā)達國家全部調(diào)整完了。都是政府補貼管吃飯，然后個人儲蓄搞改善。這就叫個人賬戶和政府的公共統(tǒng)籌賬戶相結(jié)合。非常好的。但是因為98年推這個制度的時候，國有企業(yè)減員增效下來幾千萬職工，他們平均年齡才47歲，提前退休了。那這些人的養(yǎng)老金是沒有預(yù)算的，所以他們是在用年輕人個人賬戶的錢，確實是挪用了。

Yang Yansui: I mean the interest is calculated at a one-year interest level. This is too low, because people cannot take money out until they reach the age of 60 or even 65. It's a fixed deposit account. It's like I have a fixed deposit for 35 years; how can you calculate my interest at a one-year interest level (but not a 35-year level)? Therefore, rural and urban residents' pension is devaluing. That's a problem, but the structure of the system is very good. The government subsidizes individuals who make their own savings. About 70 countries have implemented such a system. The government provides pensioners with basic living costs, and individuals improve their quality of living with their own savings. This is a combination of social pooling and individual accounts. It's a very good idea. But when the country was implementing the policy in 1998, tens of millions of State employees were laid off to boost efficiency. Their average age was only 47, but they had to retire. These people were not included in the State budget, so the government used the money in young people's individual accounts. The money was indeed diverted.

楊燕綏：那么現(xiàn)在的問題是企業(yè)職工實行的社會統(tǒng)籌個人賬戶結(jié)合，但是個人賬戶被挪用了，做成空賬了，所以現(xiàn)在在財政專戶里這是個空賬。記著，1.9萬億是一筆賬，沒有錢。這個網(wǎng)上議論很多。所以這個賬實際上不是相結(jié)合了，是混賬。所以這個問題應(yīng)該像居民這樣，政府補貼就是政府補貼。企業(yè)繳費進入社會統(tǒng)籌賬戶，等職工退休時候政府發(fā)予補貼。然后個人賬戶進入市場運營讓它保值增值，將來改善生活。

Yang Yansui: The problem we are having now is that the money in individual accounts was diverted and the accounts became empty, so the 1.9 trillion yuan is only an "item" in the State revenue's account. There's no actual money. I saw a lot of discussion online. It's no longer a combination of (government and individuals' responsibilities). It's mixed up. To solve the problem, we need to make (the State employee) pension system like the residents' (system), where the government provides subsidies. Employers contribute to the social pool, and employees receive subsidies from the government when retired. The money in individual accounts should be invested in the market to maintain and increase its value.

楊燕綏：那么機關(guān)事業(yè)單位應(yīng)該向這個制度靠攏。我認(rèn)為機關(guān)事業(yè)單位退休金應(yīng)該逐漸下降，由政府補貼的國民基礎(chǔ)養(yǎng)老金慢慢?。ù┲?。政府給農(nóng)民的補貼、給職工的基礎(chǔ)養(yǎng)老金和公務(wù)員的退休金，讓它合并，都是一個老百姓吃飯的錢，這叫國民基礎(chǔ)養(yǎng)老金。它只是保老年人吃飯。中國不管將來多么老都得讓老年人吃上飯，這是我們5000年文化的傳承，必須要做到。那么對于吃飯來講，總理吃的和農(nóng)民吃的誰多誰少??？

Yang Yansui: State employers should also gradually implement such a system. I think the pension for State employees should be reduced and eventually be replaced with the base pension. The government's subsidies for farmers, urban employees and civil servants should all be merged. They are all given to pensioners for a basic living; that's called "base pension". They only guarantee elderly people will have enough food. No matter how old China becomes, we have to make sure elderly people have enough food. This is a 5,000-year-old culture. We have to make it.In terms of having enough food, who eats more? The premier or a farmer?

馮欣：一樣的。

Feng Xin: The same.

楊燕綏：因為這是政府?；?。國民基礎(chǔ)養(yǎng)老金，老年人吃飯的養(yǎng)命錢，它不能差異很大，有人養(yǎng)命就那么貴嗎？這是一個民主問題，也是一個國民權(quán)利問題。

Yang Yansui: Since this is the base pension provided by the government and used for basic living, there shouldn't be big differences – unless one's life is more expensive than another. It's a question of democracy as well as civil rights.

如果年輕人個人賬戶里的錢被挪用來贍養(yǎng)當(dāng)前的退休人員，那么中國未來是否有足夠的錢來贍養(yǎng)現(xiàn)在的納稅人呢？根據(jù)2011年中國社會科學(xué)院出版的《中國養(yǎng)老金發(fā)展報告》，2010年，全國基本養(yǎng)老保險基金總收入達1.3萬億元。其中，政府發(fā)放了大約1萬億元給當(dāng)前的退休人員，剩余2800億元。截至2010年底，基本養(yǎng)老保險基金累計結(jié)存1.5萬億元。人社部最新的收支報告顯示，截至2011年，中國的基本養(yǎng)老保險基金累計結(jié)存1.9萬億元。但是，學(xué)者們認(rèn)為前景并不樂觀。一些人估計中國目前的養(yǎng)老金缺口在1.8至2.5萬億元之間。但是，我們該如何理解這些數(shù)字呢？我們在演播室電話采訪了鄭秉文，他是《2011中國養(yǎng)老金發(fā)展報告》的主編。

If the money in young people's individual accounts are diverted to supporting current pensioners, does China have enough money to support its current social security taxpayers when they retire? According to the 2011 China Pension Report published by the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, the total revenue of China's basic pension fund reached 1.3 trillion yuan in 2010. Of that, the government paid about 1 trillion yuan to current pensioners, leaving a balance of more than 280 billion yuan. By the end of 2010, the accumulated balance reached 1.5 trillion yuan. The Ministry of Human Resources and Social Security's latest balance report also shows China's basic pension fund remains at more than 1.9 trillion yuan as of 2011. However, many scholars are not very optimistic and estimate that China is currently facing a debt shortfall of 1.8 to 2.5 trillion yuan. But how do we make sense of these numbers? We called Zheng Bingwen from our studio. He is the lead author of the 2011 China Pension Report.

馮欣：鄭教授，人社部的官方數(shù)據(jù)顯示中國的養(yǎng)老保險基金沒有缺口，但是很多專家都認(rèn)為缺口巨大，這是怎么回事呢？

Feng Xin: Professor Zheng, the Ministry of Human Resources and Social Security's report shows there's no debt shortfall in our current pension fund, but many scholars believe the shortfall is huge. Why is that?

鄭秉文：這個缺口有這么幾層含義。一層含義就是我們的養(yǎng)老保險制度是統(tǒng)籌和個人賬戶相結(jié)合的制度。這個制度賬戶的引入和建立里邊是應(yīng)該有錢的，應(yīng)該是做實的，但是絕大部分是空的。這錢用于支付你的父輩們了，也就是說個人賬戶空賬，這算作是一個缺口吧。

Zheng Bingwen: The shortfall implies several things. The first implication is that our pension system is a combination of social pooling and individual accounts. The establishment of such a system suggests there should be actual money in the accounts, but most accounts are empty. The money is used to pay current pensioners, the elder generation. That is to say, the individual accounts become empty. This can be considered a shortfall.

馮欣：也就是，如果按照理論說，個人賬戶里的錢本應(yīng)該是自己的，不應(yīng)該被混到社會統(tǒng)籌的公共賬戶里用來支付給當(dāng)前的退休人員。但我們現(xiàn)在的問題是，個人賬戶里的錢被挪到公共賬戶里去了。個人賬戶空了，所謂的1.8萬億至2.5萬億的缺口，其實就是所有個人賬戶空賬累計的總額，是不是這個意思？

Feng Xin：So, you are saying, theoretically, the money in the individual accounts is supposed to belong to individuals. It's not supposed to be mixed up with the money in the social pooland used for paying current pensioners. But our problem is that the money in individual accounts is diverted to the social pooland therefore the accounts become empty. The so-called debt shortfall of 1.8 to 2.5 trillion yuan is the sum of all the empty accounts. Is that what you mean?

鄭秉文:對，但是這個缺口不影響我們當(dāng)期發(fā)放養(yǎng)老金。我們當(dāng)期發(fā)放養(yǎng)老金是用當(dāng)期的制度收入來發(fā)放的。制度收入減去制度支出，每年的制度還能剩一些錢。那么剩的這些錢增長率又很大，所以雖然一方面我們制度有空賬，但是另外一方面，我們制度養(yǎng)老資產(chǎn)的余額增長也很大。這是一個概念，還有一個概念就說由于我們是空賬，所以可以說我們的制度整體來看是現(xiàn)收現(xiàn)付制的，就是說工作一代的繳費用來支付退休一代的退休金。這個制度的特征就是它要形成一些隱性債務(wù)，這一點，一眼就可以看到了。你比如說長期來看，我們社會保險法規(guī)定我們最低繳費年限是15年。你比如說女性法定退休和領(lǐng)取養(yǎng)老金的年限是50歲，可是女性的平均壽命預(yù)期已經(jīng)超過25年了。15年的繳費要達到25年以上的領(lǐng)取年限，能夠平衡嗎？在資金上肯定是不平衡的，況且領(lǐng)取的養(yǎng)老金要遠遠要高于每年繳費的水平。所以這是最簡單的一個算數(shù)。這個制度是不可持續(xù)的。

Zheng Bingwen: Yes, but the shortfall doesn't affect our payments to current pensioners. The money for paying current pensioners comes from current social security taxpayers. When you subtract total expenditures from the total revenue, we actually still have a remaining balance every year. And the remaining balance increases fast. Therefore, on the one hand we have empty accounts, but on the other hand our balance grows rapidly. That's one point. Another point is that since we have empty accounts, our current system is virtually a pay-as-you-go one, meaning the working generation supports the retired generation. The characteristic of such a system is that there will be a lot of invisible debt. It's pretty obvious. For example, our social security law regulates that the minimum contribution period is 15 years. Most female employees are required to retire at the age of 50. However, their average life expectancy after retirement has exceeded 25 years. Can 15 years of contribution support 25 years of live? Is it possible? Definitely not, let alone the pension they receive will be much higher than the tax they paid. It's a simple math problem. Such a system is not sustainable.

做實和不做實這個空賬的好處和壞處、利處和弊處也是一分為二的。你比如說，如果要做實這些賬戶，國家拿出2.2萬億來做實這些賬戶，那么這個制度就必須要讓它有能力增值。如果它的投資體制還是像現(xiàn)在這樣，就是存銀行吃那點活期利息，那它是絕對貶值的。

There are both pros and cons to filling the empty accounts with cash. If we were to do so, and the State sets aside of 2.2 trillion yuan to fill the shortfall, then we'd have to make sure the value of these accounts increases. If the current investment system stays, the money in these accounts would be kept in banks with a slim interest rate. It will definitely devalue.

馮欣：好的，謝謝您。

Feng Xin: All right, thank you very much.

找到一種可持續(xù)的投資方法來保證養(yǎng)老金的價值是政府的重要責(zé)任，那么個人又需要做什么呢？

Finding a sustainable investment method to safeguard people's money is a crucial task for the government, but what about individuals?

馮欣：在我們的采訪中，我們還發(fā)現(xiàn)大部分二三十歲的人，當(dāng)我們問他們養(yǎng)老的問題的時候，都顯得比較驚訝，都說還沒有考慮過。那么我想問問您，也算是問一個技術(shù)問題。您認(rèn)為，一個普通的工薪階層的職工大概應(yīng)該從什么年齡開始考慮養(yǎng)老規(guī)劃？

Feng Xin: During our street interviews, we found many 20 to 30-year-old people were surprised when being asked about retirement. They said they haven't thought about it yet. Well, let me ask you a question, a technical one. At what age should an ordinary employee start thinking about his or her retirement?

楊燕綏：35歲以前，年輕人面臨的是養(yǎng)孩子買房子，所以這時候你對他（她）說養(yǎng)老，他（她）確實沒考慮。這是一個客觀情況。所以應(yīng)該是這樣的，在孩子稍微大一點，負(fù)擔(dān)不是很重了，房子的按揭還完50％以上了，這時候就應(yīng)該——尤其是過了35，不能晚于40，應(yīng)該考慮買健康、買養(yǎng)老。

Yang Yansui: Before 35, people usually think about raising children and buying houses; they hardly think about retirement. It's a matter of fact. As far as I see, when their small children grow up, their economic burdens become lighter, and they have paid more than 50% of their mortgage, it's then time to think about the issue, especially once they pass 35 and no later than 40. They should start thinking buying health and pension (insurance).

馮欣：那您認(rèn)為養(yǎng)老規(guī)劃應(yīng)該都從哪些方面著手，應(yīng)該考慮哪些問題？

Feng Xin: What are some of the things people should take into account when planning their retirement?

楊燕綏：養(yǎng)老規(guī)劃，第一個要考慮的問題：從什么時間開始。因為中國有社會養(yǎng)老保險；職工一工作就強制你繳費了。如果你覺得那個還比較低，還不夠的話，自己到底從什么時間開始，起點很重要，一般是35到40歲開始。因為從這個時候開始你時間比較充裕，20年的儲蓄。第二個很重要就是繳多少費呢？你存多少養(yǎng)老金呢？因為你存多少養(yǎng)老金對當(dāng)前消費是一個抵消，怎么處理當(dāng)前消費和養(yǎng)老金的問題。那存多少？還有，存什么？因為政府已經(jīng)強制你繳8％，將來它返給你的是貨幣，可以吃飯。但是我們是不是搞一點保值的養(yǎng)老資產(chǎn)讓它風(fēng)險低一點。到底是存養(yǎng)老金呢？還是買養(yǎng)老保險呢？還是買房子呢？還是儲備黃金呢？這個養(yǎng)老資產(chǎn)怎么構(gòu)成，這是第二個問題。第三個問題非常關(guān)鍵，選一個好的受托人。就是你把養(yǎng)老金交給誰來管理。有養(yǎng)老銀行儲蓄，有養(yǎng)老信托，還有養(yǎng)老保險。那么你選擇什么樣的工具，還有在各家公司之間你選擇哪一個最優(yōu)秀的公司來幫你管養(yǎng)老金。這個是第三問題。

Yang Yansui: First of all, when do you start your retirement plan? China has the basic pension system; people are required to contribute social security taxes once they are employed. If you think that's not enough, you should plan when to start saving for your retirement. The starting point is crucial. It usually should start around 35 or 40 years old, because you would have plenty of time for saving, say, 20 years. The second question to think about is how much you would like to pay. Since saving for retirement counterbalances current consumption, how do you balance the relationship between the two? Then, what are you going to save for retirement? Since the 8% of personal salary as social security tax is compulsory, the government is going to pay you back in cash, which guarantees basic living. But shall we buy some properties to reduce the risk in cash? Should we save cash, buy pension insurance, real eastate or gold? How to structure your pension assets is the second question. The third question is crucial. Choose a good trustee. Who do you trust to help you manage your pension? There are pension savings, pension trusts and pension insurance. Which tool do you choose and which company do you trust? This is the third question.

Archive · 往期

Watching China’s budget
解析中國預(yù)算

How can ordinary people make sense of China's budget?
普通人如何能弄懂中國的預(yù)算？

What makes it difficult for graduates to find jobs?
大學(xué)生就業(yè)難，難在哪？

Why do we often hear stories about college graduates unable to find jobs? -- 為什么我們經(jīng)常聽到畢業(yè)生找不到工作的事？

Does China have enough jobs for college graduates?招工難，難在哪？

What makes it difficult for employers to recruit enough workers? And what makes it difficult for job seekers to find such employers? 是什么造成了用人單位的“招工難”？又是什么讓求職者難以找到這些雇主？

Does China have enough money to fund its pensioners?
中國有沒有足夠的養(yǎng)老錢？

How much money can we receive after we retire? At what age should we start planning our retirement? 退休后我們到底能領(lǐng)多少錢？到什么年齡應(yīng)該計劃養(yǎng)老問題？

Should Chinese people retire later?
中國人是否應(yīng)該晚退休？

In what social context is the government’s proposal to push back China's retirement age rooted? 6月5日，人力資源和社會保障部提出，未來會逐步將退休年齡推遲五年。這樣做有什么深層的社會原因？

Illegal immigrants: China's rise as a land of opportunity?
“三非”外國人：中國成為機會之地？

Is the increase of incidents involving illegal immigrants a symbol of China's rise as a land of opportunity? -- "三非"外國人日益增多，是否意味著中國成為機會的土壤？

Legislating domestic violence in China: Concepts - 中國反家庭暴力立法：概念

Digest China explores the concept of domestic violence and the difficulty in proving it. 本期探討“家庭暴力”這個概念的本身和取證的困難。

Legislating domestic violence in China: Obstacles - 中國反家庭暴力立法：難點

Digest China explores some decade-long obstacles and difficulties in the process. 本期《解析中國》探討中國反家庭暴力立法進程中長期存在的阻力和分歧。